California Proposition 19 - need your guys' opinions

There are a small slice of the population who can't handle their life who may end up staying at home playing video games and eating Wendys instead of going out and being a productive member of society.

A lot of people manage to do nothing with their life without weed :lol:
 
I despise the smell of marijuana, but I have no problem with decriminalizing it. Regulate it and tax it like tobacco. The only ones who will loose are the prisons (most are privately run in the U.S.).

I'm no fan of cannabis, would never consider using it and the smell of it makes me sick. However, I don't think it's as dangerous as alcohol or some prescription meds. Legalise it already, so it can be taxed and regulated properly.

Well, I think the bottom line is:
People will smoke pot, either it being legal or not, so the government might as well regulate it and profit, while making easier for the people buying it to get a quality product.
It?s like legalizing prostitution: making it illegal won?t make it go away.
 
... they describe the situation in both Portugal and the Netherlands wrong. Posession of Drugs is still illegal in Portugal. Small quantaties get fined with monetary, above 10 daily doses you are looking at social work, said panels of experts deciding your fate and the loss of your driving license. Above that you?re still going to Jail for dealing. That is not "total decriminalisation", that?s simply "not sending people to jail but still punishing them in different ways". Germany (on the other hand) has no penalty for Drug users. None at all. Posession even of hard Drugs is tolerated if you?re an addict if you only carry as much as you personally consume. Posession of Cannabis is illegal but not followed up to 5g.
While it is correct that Cannabis is illegal in the Netherlands, up untill 30g (wich isn?t little btw) for private use you face nothing. No fine, no charge, no panel of experts ...
The conclusion that Portugal "has the most liberal drug laws" is a slap in the face ... but that you shouldn?t punish users/addicts of drugs is of course right ...
 
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Wouldn't that simply fall under tax evasion though? I mean, anyone can start their own business and not claim the income to avoid paying taxes.
No, California can't demand taxes on marijuana sales, since doing so would violate an individuals 5th amendment rights (specifically, the right to avoid self-incrimination). Weed is still illegal under federal law, so forcing you to report income from it would be akin to California forcing you to incriminate yourself under federal law.

That's just off the top of my head though. I'm certainly no lawyer, maybe there is some loophole they've found to skirt this. Though as we've seen in the past, as soon as California finds a loophole to legalize weed, Congress slams it shut.
 
I was thinking just today that most of my friends who are intelligent, socially active and aware, rather educated and open-minded are very well familiar with weed and certain other psychoactive substances. Bad episodes occurred, but that's not to say that lessons were not learned. I don't know which way does that work, but I'm pretty certain that limited psychedelic experience greatly contributed to their mindset and perception of reality and life as it is.

Thus, I'm pro legalization of quite a few substances, and decriminalization of a few more. Things like heroin, meth (and its half-arsed cook-alikes), crack and such should still be very illegal, though (although if someone somewhere undeniably proves that making them legal would minimise usage and lower associated risks, I could change my opinion). I could go into details, but that's not the topic of the thread, strictly speaking.

Weed - well, as I said in the other thread, it can have devastating effects in certain cases, but then it could very well be that lightning kills more people (not a real statistic, I'm using this as a metaphor - could be not too far from truth though). But for most people it can be very beneficial and less harmful than a lot of legal substances.
 
I will add, though, that most (if not all) deeply spiritual people who have spoken on the subject pretty much unanimously condone the use of psychedelics. And I am quite certain that they are essentially correct. But average western mindset is miles away from eastern levels of spirituality, and capitalism isn't exactly helping. So we have to deal with what we have and not some hypothetical society, while still aiming higher, if you pardon the accidental pun. But to use or not should be a choice, a choice based on hard facts, not disinformation and botched studies (hello meth monkeys aka mdma rots your brain), or prohibition for that matter.
 
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Sorry for triple-posting, but I hope you can deal with it :p
History of weed. A quick overview of how it was.

[video=youtube;zfiaC-2K1LM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfiaC-2K1LM[/video]
 
Has anyone watched the Drugs Inc. documentary on MJ?

[video=youtube;niB3jzd-5tk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niB3jzd-5tk&feature=related[/video]

IIRC it stated that up to 60% of all revenue for the Mexican drug lords come from MJ traffic, which incidently funds their private army and other endeavours (ie. coke, heroin).
 
You need to read up on Americas experiment with Prohibition. Marijuana is the same way, in my opinion, the laws against it do far more harm than the prohibited item. And I will fully admit that I am biased. I currently consume marijuana and I am waiting for the state to mail my medical card.

If marijuana were recently discovered in the jungles of the Amazon or Congo, it would be studied and celebrated. And the scrap bit from the plant can be used to make all sorts of useful things and are far better for the environment than the alternatives like it's cousin hemp. Hemp is also caught up in the prohibition because they are so closely related. Hemp was grown in this country until 1937 and again during WWII. But it was vilified for many reasons.

You can find more on your own, but here are a few links/videos that I have found interesting (If I threw everything up here it would take a full page on the forum)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Marihuana_and_Drug_Abuse

The Commission recommended decriminalization of simple possession, finding:

[T]he criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use. It implies an overwhelming indictment of the behavior which we believe is not appropriate. The actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion by the criminal law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only 'with the greatest reluctance.
The Commission found that the constitutionality of marijuana prohibition was suspect, and that the executive and legislative branches had a responsibility to obey the Constitution, even in the absence of a court ruling to do so:

While the judiciary is the governmental institution most directly concerned with the protection of individual liberties, all policy-makers have a responsibility to consider our constitutional heritage when framing public policy. Regardless of whether or not the courts would overturn a prohibition of possession of marihuana for personal use in the home, we are necessarily influenced by the high place traditionally occupied by the value of privacy in our constitutional scheme.
The Commission also recommended that the distinctions between licit and illicit drugs be dropped, finding that "the use of drugs for pleasure or other non-medical purposes is not inherently irresponsible; alcohol is widely used as an acceptable part of social activities"[1].
Thanks Nixon

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

http://stopthedrugwar.org/

http://reason.tv/video/show/adam-carolla-the-reasontv-inte

[video=youtube;Du3TXm-4UcM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3TXm-4UcM[/video]

[video=youtube;Ne9UF-pFhJY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY[/video]




This last video shows what happens now under the current system from law enforcement(this is their video)

 
Well I'm a youngan from California, but I barely even drink honestly and I don't smoke anything. (Yes, I am over the age of 21).

I think with the legalization of it won't really significantly increase the amount of people actually smoking it. Those who want to smoke it ALREADY DO. I'm not sure how much the cartels in Mexico have of an influence over it (sorry it's not really in my interests to figure it out, call me whatever you may on this), but it is QUITE expensive and sometimes hard to get from what I hear. It could potentially decrease the prices and decriminalize those who already do it, although they aren't really criminalized much to begin with unless the growers/smokers are being too obvious.

I also believe that has the potential to be less dangerous than Alcohol because most of the people I know who smoke it don't really go out and drive or they don't smoke it enough to get wasted out of their minds. (Like a couple of beers would perhaps) (Most of the people I know who smoke have jobs, decent enough grades, etc.)

I dunno if this helped, but this is just what I have observed in my time of being in school and hanging out with people.
 
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This last video shows what happens now under the current system from law enforcement(this is their video)

That makes me angrier every time I see it. Fat fuck, wannabe-badass, power tripping cops break into a guys home in the middle of the night, shoot his dogs (a caged pitbull and a vicious, terrifying, unstoppable ... corgi) in front of his wife and seven year old son ... and what do they find? Some baggies and a pipe. Barely even enough to charge the guy with a misdemeanor. Oh and it gets better; the cops also charged the guy with child endangerment for having "pot" in the house.
 
Well I'm a youngan from California, but I barely even drink honestly and I don't smoke anything. (Yes, I am over the age of 21).

I think with the legalization of it won't really significantly increase the amount of people actually smoking it. Those who want to smoke it ALREADY DO.

This. Weed cards are so easy to get. Legalizing it, really, just removes that hassle and will bring in more money to a state that really needs it. Granted, I live in the Bay Area, home of the hippies, but I have found few, and I mean very few, people who don't smoke already. I say legalize it. To me the extra tax income is worth it as well as letting cops go deal with more important stuff. Someone high with a joint on them isn't much of a danger to anyone but a fast food restaurant or a grocery store.
 
That makes me angrier every time I see it. Fat fuck, wannabe-badass, power tripping cops break into a guys home in the middle of the night, shoot his dogs (a caged pitbull and a vicious, terrifying, unstoppable ... corgi) in front of his wife and seven year old son ... and what do they find? Some baggies and a pipe. Barely even enough to charge the guy with a misdemeanor. Oh and it gets better; the cops also charged the guy with child endangerment for having "pot" in the house.

The whole child endangerment really pisses me off for the hypocrisy. They (cops) caused more danger to them in the 2 minutes they were filming than the guy did the kids entire life!
 
Exactly. Kid's probably going to have to see a shrink or go through adolescence scared shitless of cops.


Edit: I had lunch with a couple friends (husband and wife) today. He's pretty far left and she is definitely not. Me and him started ranting about this stuff, about how cops are turning into paramilitaries, the repercussions of it, the erosion of our liberties, how weed should be legal, etc etc etc. After 15-20 minutes his wife was looking at us like we'd been kicking her dog for fun and profit. :lol:
 
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I think with the legalization of it won't really significantly increase the amount of people actually smoking it.

If the Netherlands are any kind of indicator, it will actually decrease in the long run. I know quite a few dutch people because a good friend of mine lives there, and none of them smoke. And it?s not because they?re all super boring and super healthy, a lot of them smoke cigarettes, and they all drink. A lot. You wouldn?t believe how much they drink. Most of them have tried weed at some point, because after all it?s readily available. But they all prefer alcohol and literally never smoke weed.
 
But they all prefer alcohol and literally never smoke weed.

Weird. I mean, unless you have some issues with being high, there definitely are situations when weed is better, or alcohol is not an option at all.
 
Exactly. Kid's probably going to have to see a shrink or go through adolescence scared shitless of cops.


Edit: I had lunch with a couple friends (husband and wife) today. He's pretty far left and she is definitely not. Me and him started ranting about this stuff, about how cops are turning into paramilitaries, the repercussions of it, the erosion of our liberties, how weed should be legal, etc etc etc. After 15-20 minutes his wife was looking at us like we'd been kicking her dog for fun and profit. :lol:

For some reason I have yet to determine, women tend to buy into the whole reefer madness bit to a far greater degree than men. Yet the same women are liberal on other topics, but the men tend to be more of a conservative nature. And how did they get together anyway? Normally a far lefty will attract other far lefties.
 
For some reason I have yet to determine, women tend to buy into the whole reefer madness bit to a far greater degree than men. Yet the same women are liberal on other topics, but the men tend to be more of a conservative nature. And how did they get together anyway? Normally a far lefty will attract other far lefties.
I can't explain it either. As for them, they get along great other than their politics. Have similar hobbies, goals, that kind of stuff. She jokes that he used his evil liberal journalist powers to lie to and seduce her. And he's ok with that explanation because she's pretty hot. :lol:
 
[video=youtube;jY6TILz-seY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6TILz-seY[/video]

Bears with bongs! Sudden popularity of Dennys! It's a nightmarish vision.
 
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