Land Rover Defender 2015

[WillDAQ]

Where have the external hinges gone?

Into the bin marked '20th Century' where they belong? The internal ones won't rust.

It looks to me like the new Defender has been designed to be a practical, capable car for people who need such things, usually because they work in the countryside. Instead we get whinging from 'enthusiasts' who don't live in the country but want an archaic novelty that they can stick the contents of 4x4 monthly to.

The only reason the old Defender stuck around so long was the military market, but now even they want something more modern.

 

[Matt2000]

Into the bin marked '20th Century' where they belong? The internal ones won't rust.

They will on a Defender due to the working conditions they're used in, and because they're internal they can't be easily replaced like external ones.

This plastic fantastic just won't work in most situations old (in both senses) Defenders are currently used in. I'd like to see one of these towing lifeboats in and out of the sea (sea water rusts internal hinges by the way).

The only reason the old Defender stuck around so long was the military market, but now even they want something more modern.

That's not true. Please explain why civilian models, even old ones hold their value so ridiculously well.

 

[Andeh]

This is awful. And no matter how Land Rover (and Top Gear) try to claim newer Land Rover models are as capable off road as their predecessors, they inevitably aren't. The Disco 3 was a step down in practicality from the 2, (I've never driven the 4, so can't comment) and this, I fear, will be exactly the same.

 

[JipJopJones]

I have no words for how much this disappoints me.

 

[Cowboy]

*


*actual expression on my face*

 

[Spectre]

Wait, so the Americans (Jeep Wrangler) are better at maintaining an automotive tradition than the British? Must go and deal with this new fact.

Yup. Remember, these days the British are in the "if it's old or even looks like it's been around for a while, throw it away, it's worthless" mode, only to later realize that this might have been a mistake - even while they scrap more stuff. See the Peppercorn A1 steam engine in 13x01 for an example.

 

[Labcoatguy]

Yup. Remember, these days the British are in the "if it's old or even looks like it's been around for a while, throw it away, it's worthless" mode, only to later realize that this might have been a mistake - even while they scrap more stuff. See the Peppercorn A1 steam engine in 13x01 for an example.

I'm still getting over the fact that every single British battleship (HMS Belfast does not count) has been scrapped, while old pre-WWI American dreadnoughts (not to be cliche, but this includes a certain USS Texas) are still around.

 

[marcos_eirik]

I'm still getting over the fact that every single British battleship (HMS Belfast does not count) has been scrapped, while old pre-WWI American dreadnoughts (not to be cliche, but this includes a certain USS Texas) are still around.

Or even more significantly, who decided to conserve and rescue the RMS Queen Mary from the scrappers...? Well, it's not in Britain, for sure. And also, who mindlessly sold away the RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 to an uncertain future in Dubai....?

When it comes to this new Defender concept, I have to say I can't see what's wrong with it...

 

[Spectre]

I'm still getting over the fact that every single British battleship (HMS Belfast does not count) has been scrapped, while old pre-WWI American dreadnoughts (not to be cliche, but this includes a certain USS Texas) are still around.

Yes, yes, it does.

Not to mention that the original 1831 London Bridge (as in, London bridge is falling down, falling down) ended up in the US as did many unwanted UK castles.

I'd say that the record backs up which country has a better overall sense of the value of history, wouldn't you?

At any rate, I guess that leaves the Wrangler as the last worthy descendant of the immediate-post-WW2 era offroaders standing. Winner by default.

 

[WillDAQ]

I'd like to see one of these towing lifeboats in and out of the sea

I know you would, because you're an enthusiast, but the reality is that they use either a tractor, a custom made machine (see below) or at a push a HiLux. Land Rover simply cannot complete in those traditional markets anymore with the existing Defender, and don't have the resources to take on the Japanese as the 'indestructible vehicle of choice'.

That's not true. Please explain why civilian models, even old ones hold their value so ridiculously well.

Because they are classic British cars that people like to tinker with. You won't find many Mk1s on a modern farm. Instead they're owned by 21 year olds from Market Harbour. This is the 'oh, the XF isn't a proper Jaguar argument all over again'.

Not to mention that the original 1831 London Bridge (as in, London bridge is falling down, falling down) ended up in the US as did many unwanted UK castles.

Sorry but the original London bridge is 3000 years old and still exists in the form of a series of posts which emerge at low tide near Vauxhall. I know by American standards 1831 is 'old', but that's nothing by UK standards. Same principal with the castles, we have hundreds of the things.

I'd say that the record backs up which country has a better overall sense of the value of history, wouldn't you?

That's hilarious, you're talking about a country where anything more than 50 years old is branded 'historic'.

 

[Cobol74]

Yes, yes, it does.

Not to mention that the original 1831 London Bridge (as in, London bridge is falling down, falling down) ended up in the US as did many unwanted UK castles.

I'd say that the record backs up which country has a better overall sense of the value of history, wouldn't you?

At any rate, I guess that leaves the Wrangler as the last worthy descendant of the immediate-post-WW2 era offroaders standing. Winner by default.

No do not think we sold the castles - bridge yes, castles no, you never know may need to keep the Welsh in their place again. The ones you have are made by Disney and are made out of GRP.

Edit/ Oh you may mean country houses - yes I think some of them got sold but they are not 'proper castles'.

 

[Labcoatguy]

That's hilarious, you're talking about a country where anything more than 50 years old is branded 'historic'.

Better prematurely historic than prematurely disposed of.

 

[WillDAQ]

Better prematurely historic than prematurely disposed of.

Smacks more of cultural insecurity to be honest.

The UK has a complex system of preserving history, including building listings, scheduled monuments, the National Trust, English Heritage, etc. etc. The difference is that some judgment has to be made on how much history to keep, you can't stop people living in a modern way somewhere just because people have lived there for thousands of years.

 

[Spectre]

No do not think we sold the castles - bridge yes, castles no, you never know may need to keep the Welsh in their place again. The ones you have are made by Disney and are made out of GRP.

Edit/ Oh you may mean country houses - yes I think some of them got sold but they are not 'proper castles'.

They'll do until something better comes along...

That said, not all our castles were made by Disney and they're not fiberglass either...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_castles_in_the_United_States

Smacks more of cultural insecurity to be honest.

Yeah, no. Consider how often you see the British lamenting getting rid of something starting about 10 years after it's gone.

 

[Cobol74]

I can't see any built in the 1100s in that list, but OK some are not GRP.

Now this is a castle - circa 1282

This is what you call a castle. ? (NB a big house in England)

 

[laxmax613]

Toom much 'lifestyle vehicle' and too little utility. I can see where this might fit in to the LR lineup, but not as the Defender. That said, this is a concept and not a production model so i'm not terribly worried.

 

[Andeh]

Because they are classic British cars that people like to tinker with. You won't find many Mk1s on a modern farm. Instead they're owned by 21 year olds from Market Harbour. This is the 'oh, the XF isn't a proper Jaguar argument all over again'.

As someone from a farming family, in a predominentily rural, farming area, more than you think. Granted, they aren't many Series Is in farm use as most people are wise to their value as classics. However, there are many Series IIIs, Lightweights and other 'classic' Land Rovers in use around here. I saw two Series IIIs today, and they certainly weren't cherised classics from Market Harbour. I sold a winch to a Series II owner the other week, and I don't think he bought it as a showpiece for his front bumper. While there are polished and pampered Landys around, there are plenty of used and abused ones.

 

[Matt2000]

but the reality is that they use either a tractor, a custom made machine (see below) or at a push a HiLux.

Yes, they use tractors, but not in all cases.

That's the Blackpool RNLI, they've had Defenders for years and obviously have a reason to choose them over Japanese brands. I seriously doubt that even a Hilux would resist rust more than a well cared for Defender in those conditions.

You're right that you won't find classic Land Rovers working on modern farms, but that's irrelevant and you will find modern Defenders working as they have been doing for years.

Anyway, I'll fight the Defender's corner all day but it's unlikely to convince Land Rover, who are of the (correct) opinion that the current Defender isn't cost effective. I just don't feel that the DC100 is the replacement.

 

[WillDAQ]

That said, not all our castles were made by Disney and they're not fiberglass either...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_castles_in_the_United_States

Note that most cannot properly be described as true castles. They are primarily country houses or follies, built in the style of medieval castles.

Yeah, no. Consider how often you see the British lamenting getting rid of something starting about 10 years after it's gone.

Well you're never going to get everything right, but a little more discretion than 'old' goes a long way!

Toom much 'lifestyle vehicle' and too little utility.

We've seen two pictures for crying out loud!

However, there are many Series IIIs, Lightweights and other 'classic' Land Rovers in use around here. I saw two Series IIIs today, and they certainly weren't cherised classics from Market Harbour.

Ah but that isn't quite the same is it, if they've owned the vehicle for a long time so the up front cost is covered then they're obviously going to keep them. The question is how many of these will be replaced by a brand new Defender. Ultimately in todays market there are better options than the Defender, and that is why it is being replaced.

they've had Defenders for years and obviously have a reason to choose them over Japanese brands

For second part, see first part. Having loyal customers is useful, but tends to be a diminishing supply if you don't modernise your product!


Exactly the same principal is being applied to Land Rover as was applied to Jaguar. Move away from aging loyal customer base to make a product which is competitive on its own merits.

 

[Spectre]

Exactly the same principal is being applied to Land Rover as was applied to Jaguar. Move away from aging loyal customer base to make a product which is competitive on its own merits.

Except that isn't working for Jaguar either. Sales are reportedly way, way down, more than the economy can account for.